Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Do We Need Incentives?
My son is trying to cut 3 seconds from his breaststroke time. 3 measly seconds. When he finished the race, one of the parents said, "Do you have an Xbox? What if your mom bought you an Xbox if you cut those 3 seconds?" We have an Xbox. I looked at the man, who is sort of a family friend and said, "He wants to do his best because he wants to do his best, not to please his mom or get a present." The man said," Oh, ok" Then I said hopefully to my son, "Right?" He nodded. I thought about this the rest of the swim meet. At dinner, we have debates on this topic. My oldest son insisting that more would get more done and done more efficiently from everyone if I would just offer a financial incentive. He proves the point because if someone wants extra money to do something and I throw in 5 bucks the floor almost always looks better. But I do not want that! I want my kids to do their best all the time because it is right to always do your best, not because they will get money. The son reiterates his position with the paycheck argument. He formed his conclusions from personal experience. He would be in charge of babysitting his 4 younger brothers. Not easy. As part of getting paid for babysitting he also had to keep the kitchen and rest of the house clean. Not easy. My husband and I would come home from our date nights and the children would be asleep, the house tidy, the counters clean and shoes lined up neatly. My son managed this by bribing his younger siblings with a magic "prize box". He would spend maybe a $2 grand total at the Dollar store and put little plastic junk toys inside an empty shoe box and tell the brothers if they cleaned and went to bed they could pick whatever they wanted from the prize box. Whatever they wanted they could pick! And even though a 4 year old was able to realize and comprehend he was getting only junk for all his effort he still consistently put forth the effort to get the prize. When they ask me now if they could get money for doing something I tell them their reward will be heaven. My oldest son still insists I could say heaven all I want but by offering a concrete prize the effort and result will always be better. What do you think?
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I'd say yes, prizes are great, and they do up the anty so they say...but really it's not always about the prize (or shouldn't be) but about doing our best, giving it what we can....and walking away happy about doing it...! Right!
ReplyDeleteThis is a hard one. I am trying to raise my family with the idea that a helping family is a happy family. We work together because that gets the job done better and faster, and then we'll all get to have fun together. That said, I realize all too often that I offer "treats" in order to convince my oldest (but still very young son) to help out.
ReplyDeleteI must say, you're son is pretty ingenuitive when it comes to that magic prize box! I probably would have never thought up anything that cleaver at his age.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't know what to think on this issue; not a lot of kids these days have the work ethics that their parents or grandparents had so it unfortunately DOES take bribery and incentive to get things done.
For me personally, I like doing my best at whatever I put my energy into because I don't see the point in doing a partial job. It just means more work for you in the end.
My personal experience as a babysitter is interesting. As the older sibling, it was expected of me to babysit my little sister free of charge. I was not paid for this. My little sister, however, was a bit of a troublemaker and SHE was paid to behave.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't know if the results would be better, as your son insists. In my experience, bribery like that only goes so far. That is, because the work is being done just for the prize and not the personal reward, I think in most instances only the bare minimum amount of effort is ever given. Just enough to squeak out that prize, but not enough to over exert themselves because there is no personal satisfaction in it.
But that's just my opinion.
Well, since I don't get paid for writing yet, there are other incentives to learn besides money and material gain. But maybe I'm an oddball. :)
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that they should understand that money and material things should not be the overall motivation to do something that is right.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think that if youre a good parent, and establish these understandings early in life, doing things for pocket change can't hurt much. I'm not talking 100s by any means, but i have actually found that my kids love to put money in their piggy banks. They don't spend the money, but instead look to compete & see who can fill their banks first!
Soon, your son will be learning monetary values in school. I don't think this is a topic that will go aaway, as much as many of us would rather live without money!
Best wishes!
Prizes are a great motivation. Kind of reminds me of the scripture verse that tells us to do not be weary in doing good which reads...Galatians 6:9
ReplyDeleteAnd let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall REAP if we do not lose heart.
Plus on the other hand, your son knows that he should always do his best. However in doing his best, he also will be rewarded with a prize:)
I think your son is very intelligent. At a tender age he's already mastered how corporate America works. I think we can expect big things from him in the future.
ReplyDeleteI think babysitting is a hard example. I say this because if someone other than your child (a non-family member) were doing the sitting, then you would probably pay them in cash rather than compliments. However, if we were talking about keeping a tidy room, or helping with the dishes, or even doing school work, then I would say that, yes-- they should do well on principle without incentive.
ReplyDeleteI would think with taking those three seconds off his time, the competition would be enough of a motivator. Always realizing that we can't do things beyond our physical capacity.
ReplyDeleteAs for rewards in the home and the family....I never did them. The kids were supposed to do things and get them done because I provide a home, shelter, clothes, transportation, etc, and that is how family works. That was supposed to be reward enough. Although, I'm sure they would have agreed with some sort of monetary compensation.
I think it's great for kids to do things and do them well for its own reward. However, the paycheck analogy is a good one. :) My two step-boys got allowance, but only after they had completed the chores assigned.
ReplyDeleteBlessings!
We do a combination. Regular stuff gets done because we are a family and we all pitch in. Extra stuff like doing dad's laundry or cleaning the master bath gets paid because more often than not it's something I don't want to do!
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of when my boys were little and if they sold a gazillion magazines for the school they would win a 25c. pencil..they about killed themselves for that stupid prize. I work in a small rural hospital..in the operating room. When we got a new group of anesthesiologists they wanted the surgery schedule busier. They promised a free lunch every month that the schedule increased by 50 cases. Don't ask me how we did it..we didn't go out and knock people over to fix broken bones, but it got busier and we received a ton of free lunches. They realized that incentives helped, but I knew the real reason. Nurses will do anything for free food.
ReplyDeleteAn xbox. That is big dollars. Well this is 2012 and the world is into materialistic things to get awards for swiming and sports. Sorry I do not agree. My kids are grown men and married .They worked or done things for fun. I do know what things cost now. I think having an xbox for cutting seconds is not good idea. This man is living in a make believe world of.( Duh) Sir do you not see the world we live in now. What does that teach a child. Money is an award. It will start with that and what next Sir. A big t.v for his room.I am on your side Mom of 8. You work too hard for your money. Time will come when he will go out to work. My Grandkids do. It teaches them that money does not grow on trees.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there is a right or a wrong to this one. Even Dave Ramsey gives his kids money for work done, but not all work done. Obviously there are things that should be done around the house because they are members of the house. But I don't think there is anything wrong in giving a monetary incentive for certain tasks. Maybe tasks that no one wants to do. But one thing I did learn from Dave Ramsey is that if you give out money then they should learn how to treat it. As in set up 3 piggy banks, one for giving, one for saving and one for spending. Then when they earn money they have to put split it up into all 3. It gets them into the habit of having their first fruits taken out immediately. I loved this idea!
ReplyDeleteI'm struggling with this right now as well. I want my kids to learn how to manage money and have some sense of independence and responsibility, but I don't wan them to work only because there is a reward attached to it. I know that if I gave them money for every chore I would see better results but I don't think that's teaching them good values or maybe the kind of values I want them to have. You've just gotta be strong.
ReplyDeleteI always hated math (even simple arithmetic)when I was a kid I'm not good at it even now. In the 3rd grade we were expected to learn the multiplication tables. Oh how miserable, I was. I struggled through the lower numbers (up to 5) but then I was done! Didn't want to learn the rest, didn't see the point, they were not in any way, shape, or form something that I thought I could do. They were too hard! I can't do it!! I flat out refused to try anymore.
ReplyDeleteTalks from the my parents didn't help. Finally, the teacher suggested the possibility of an incentive. So my mother offered to make an outfit for my favorite doll for each set of numbers I learned.
I LOVED that doll. I liked dressing her up in doll clothes and played with her for hours. I absolutely liked that doll more than I hated math, I guess. Because it worked. I learned my 6s and mom made a dress, then my 7s and another dress. And so on. I learned all of the rest. And I ended up getting 7 new dresses for my "Baby".
Would I have learned the tables without the incentive?? Sure, eventually, with a lot of moaning and groaning. But with the right incentive I plowed right into them and got them learned in a couple of weeks. Sure surprised myself!
All I'm saying is that it depends on the circumstance, the individual, and if the child is able to do what needs doing.
Still there are times when I struggle with numbers and I am grateful for the perfect incentive....otherwise balancing my checkbook or the like would be even more awful than it is!
Oh my, you have made me smile. My mom was always telling us kids (I had 7 siblings) that we would get our reward in heaven. As my children (now grown) were growing up I used that same remark on them. I do agree with you that children should strive to do their best to please themselves, foremost, and not expect to be rewarded for it.
ReplyDeleteI'd say your son is right if all you're thinking about is the short term. But in the long term, everyone either wants to do their best all the time, or they don't. Good performance isn't always rewarded in bonuses or incentives. Sometimes you do your best just because you have pride in your work ethic and reputation. But back to your son: all the gifts in the world won't give him the heart to excel in a sport. He'll either rise to the occasion, or he won't. The choice is his, knowing that it will take some hard work. He'll have to ask himself how bad he wants it.
ReplyDeletePrizes are fun and all ( I love them personally!), but it's better to grow up developing your character as you grow up, so when you really need it, you'll have "the stuff" you need to power through a difficult time.
I recently drew up a contract with my 13 year old grandson for some heavy duty yard work I need done. We agreed on a price but when I see him struggling with the hard stuff I will remind him that I'm a good tipper for a job well done. So there's a point for financial incentive. But this same grandson has asked to go with me on a home re-build mission trip (through the church). The work is just as hard and he knows he won't be paid.
ReplyDeleteI'd say he has a good grasp on the balance between financial incentive and doing something because it needs to be done.
think about it..heaven is the most concrete prize ever created..you do good deeds b/c you enjoy doing good deeds; however you also do good deeds b/c you benefit from doing good deeds (ie-they make you feel good). No action in life done by anybody ever was done for no reason; even if you are not consciously aware of the reason for your action, you have a reason. And this reason is always, always, always, self-interested in some way, whether completely or minimally, you never do anything unless it benefits you. I'd recommend reading Jefferson, Rousseau, Locke, Hobbes & Machiavelli for they can explain it better than I can; however, even Jesus Christ died on the cross because he directly benefitted from it. He suffered, he was scorned, rebuked, made fun of, spitted on, completely de-humanized and eventually tortured to death. Why? Because although he had to endure that suffering, he knew that it would bring him more joy to love all of us than it would to continue loving just himself. Jesus loves all of us more than he loves himself; yet he loves us more than he loves himself precisely because he loves to love, he is love itself. Thus, the more people he loves, the more that embodiment of love becomes actualized into real love. Hence to say his death was selfless is correct; but to say the reason for his selfless death was selfless deserves a closer look. Conclusively, by dying, he established the greatest prize of all-heaven. Would religion exist if not for a promise of this prize? Would churches be built, crusades be waged, missionaries be sent overseas and monasteries constructed if we knew heaven did not exist?
ReplyDeleteI think you are a very wise woman who is raising some really smart kids. All these things will show them responsibility and determination that no XBox ever could. Good job!
ReplyDeleteMostly we do things if we want to, while getting paid or bribe money does work to some extent in some cases, the biggest reward in the world will not be enough if it is something you really don't want to do.
ReplyDeleteI think you raised a great debater : )
ReplyDeletei think that tangible rewards work...but then you have to watch it because it creates dependence on them to get anything done as well...so they work, but sometimes they backfire
ReplyDeleteI agree with Gretchen above. You impress me as a Mom of great wisdom, fairness and love. Responsibility is taught by your example first of all. Congrats!
ReplyDeleteIt depends on the situation. I don't think offering a prize for doing better at swimming time is a good idea. That is something that a person should strive for for their personal best and for it's intrinsic value. Sometimes babysitting should also be done for free. But in the case you are describing, where your husband and you are having a (much needed) date night and your son is responsible for his siblings as well as clean up, he should be given a small financial incentive. This is esp. so since he is spending money to induce his younger siblings to do what he wants. When we I remember needing to use a reward system like this for young children in the classroom. It really works and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Trainers also use rewards when they are training pets. Not that children are pets but it goes to illustrate that rewards do work ;-) I think the key is using them sparingly and where they will have most impact.
ReplyDeleteWay back when my son (now 37) was in 3rd grade, he wasn't motivated to do homework, was sloppy about his school work and desk, so the teacher, after all else failed, recommended bribes. You know, $$$. She iterated that it worked for she and her husband with their youngest. I had a problem with the concept, but tried it anyway. He really didn't care because there wasn't really anything he wanted that badly. All he wanted was to be able to play outside with the neighborhood boys after school.
ReplyDeleteWe did sorta bribe him when he was going to quit school at age 16, and work full time so he could have a car. I broke down and purchased him wheels so he would stay in school. He hated every day of school. Now he's 11 classes away from a BS in forensics! And doing great! Go figure. (He's also the father of 2 with #3 on the way.)
he is competing to better his time not to beat someone else, let him do it on his own, the reward will be accomplishing his goal, that will be his prize,
ReplyDeleteUp to now, our boys have never been paid for their work...they work because they are part of the family. Now however they are too young for a "real job" yet I want them to learn to deal with money. SO... what I have done is put $.50 for everyday of the month into a jar for each of them. If their chore list is not done or not done correctly in the time given, they lose out on the days $.50. I heard there is a stock idea in there somewhere that what has not been earned it not important (out of sight, out of mind), but if there is something to be lost, then THAT is a big deal.
ReplyDeleteSo...with that, they get the money at the end of the month, not daily. Then the remaining money gets put into 3 more jars...charity, savings, spending. We also have a list of home repairs that they can help Dad with and learn how to do new things while earning a few more quarters here and there. Oh, and their attitude also plays into whether they keep their money or not as we believe there is no reason to get huffy about doing what is needed (future lessons for their own home). So far it is working...we are on week 2.
My husband, a PhD in business, tell me about the X employee and the Y employee. I can't remember which, but one works with the whip and reward and the other is self motivated, no matter what level of work. There can be CEO's motivated by the fear of the stockholder revolt and ditch diggers that just want to do a great job. Discover which type you are working with and adjust the motivation to an "atta boy" or a $. just sayin'
ReplyDeleteAm very thankful for this entry of yours. Can't remember, that I ever received any money upon doing 'best'. Yet the memories are indeed priceless.
ReplyDeleteI think an X-box for sports performance is crazy! I know many parents reward their kids that way, but someday they're going to have to grow up and realize you just have to do your best everyday or you loose important things like relationships and jobs. We do keep track of the chores the kids do around here, and pay per chore on my husband's payday. They don't get a lot either, it's just $.25 for taking out the trash as an example.
ReplyDeleteI say I agree with you ... no rewards, just do your best, achieve as best you can & you will feel a LOT better about yourself in the end.
ReplyDeleteGood for you, Mother.
TTFN ~
Hugs,
Marydon
I think you have a very smart kid there!!!! I do think it depends on the child. Rewards work for some but not all kids. It is hard for kids to understand the rewards of "someday in heaven" I think....at least the littlest of them- xo Diana
ReplyDeleteI work at a school and have researched the topic of incentives. The results are mixed...but the overall opinion seems to be that if there is no motivation (intrinsic or extrinsic) to do the task then extrinsic (rewards) can get the ball rolling. If there is motivation to do the task then rewards will reduce internal desire to do the task.
ReplyDeleteSo in the short term an incentive can get the job done...but in the long run it might be more detrimental.
I run into this with my daughter--age 6. On her bus after school they give every child a penny who behaves. 5 pennies can be traded in for a prize. She and I talk A LOT about how people can give you pennies or not give you pennies...you behave. She gets it...but it so interesting to see how her mindset starts to slip into the "I only behave because I get pennies...are you going to give me pennies?"
Many years ago when our daughter was swimming competitively if she wanted to take a few seconds off her time she would ask to be taken to extra practices. I made myself available to take her. Not only did she learn meeting a goal was her responsibility, she also gained respect from her coaches (and her mom). She was swimming for herself not us. For assigned chores? If there is no reward then I don't think expectations can be set in regards to the quality of the completed job. Just my thought.
ReplyDeleteWell now..I love a good debate especially when capitalism or morals are involved. - My rule of thumb was, if it was a regular chore that was required as being part of the family and to have the home run smooth then 'no money'. With that said, I agree with your son, that it is human nature to work harder/better when a reward is in the mix. The test of character comes when, perhaps, there is 'no' money to give. That is when we see the heart condition...that was always my main concern. Maybe an elderly neighbor lady needed wood chopped and stacked or a new mom who's hubby was working overtime to make ends meet was desperate for someone to help get laundry and floors done. Those are the times I would hope that they would do their very best for no monetary reward. Something tells me that your children would pass that test easily. xo
ReplyDeleteI don't believe rewards should be given for personal achievements. The reward is in the accomplishment - the pride, the self-confidence, the learning and wisdom that is gained. A celebration of achievement is always important though! I don't think rewards should be given for chores either. It should be seen as a contributing factor to the family.
ReplyDeleteRewards are a great short term solution, but -long term- they don't build a character that strives to do well just because they are able to do well. Rewards teach to do well in order to receive something in exchange - once that reward is gone so is all motivation and willingness to strive for success.
All I can say is that your elder son is very mature and shrewd (in a good way)! I'm impressed!!
ReplyDeleteYou sure have smart kids....I say stick to your guns...you are doing it correctly...maybe a surprise family outing or new movie/game would be good once in a while.
ReplyDeleteAll I asks of my son is to do his best, he can not do better than that.
ReplyDeleteI think kids should pitch in, do chores and help out because they are part of the family "team." But sometimes it's nice to reward them monetarily for doing an extra big, out of the ordinary job. If they get paid for every little thing, then they won't ever want to do it for free.
ReplyDeleteA job well done, and the pride it brings, should be its own reward. I never received any allowance or incentive nor did my children. I believe it breeds bad habits. Just my opinion. :)
ReplyDeleteAs humans, we all need incentives. These may not necessarily come in the form of monetary reward (such as a paycheck, bonus, allowance) but as respect from peers and superiors, personal gain, added self-confidence, higher status, etc. If you can reward people with exactly what they desire at that point in their lives, you'll go far (and your son with his trinket toys as a reward seems to be well on his way).
ReplyDeleteI agree that the achievement is the reward but I also feel that for the more mundane (not personal achievements) some type of incentive is not amiss. I found this topic very interesting as I have reared three sons..all of whom graduated with honors both from high school as well as their Universities. The pride in achievement was a very appreciated-by-them rerward. Through the years the gift I may buy..someting small (not for report cards..I never ever rewarded the great report cards except with my highest sincere praise) to please them that I thought they might like. Sometimes I gave them gifts just because. Or I gave them each a day of my time periodically taking them out of school for a day with mom. We would have lunch, maybe go to a movie..the park, whatever. I continued this all through high school as well for all three sons. As honor students they could afford to miss the time on those occasions.
ReplyDeleteJust my thoughts.
Sadly, I have had to do the incentives with my Son. He has ADHD and I used to have to work with bribery to just get him through the day without a phone call from the school... but it worked the other way too --- if I DID get a call from school there was something taken away!!
ReplyDeleteThis was not a problem back when jobs meant your family had wood chopped for a fire, crops to take to market, etc. There has been a sea change in the last hundred years, a new morality is in place. It will be these children's problem to deal with in their world. Or not. It will be their norm.
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't believe we should bribe them but I think an occasionally incentive is OK:) As long as they understand it isn't EVERY time! Have a blessed evening, HUGS!
ReplyDeleteI still remember the time my grandma was tending us, and she just suggested it would be nice if the house was all clean when parents returned, and we could pretend we were little elves, magical elves. We did it. But I only remember that once. Incentives are good, but xbox is bad. Humm. I also remember rewarding oldest child for good spelling with an expensive toy...it was supposed to be a one timer. That did not bode well. I say. I vote, occasional, surprise rewards.
ReplyDeleteAs a teacher, I've noticed that a lot of students these days have a strong sense of entitlement and want to negotiate things that I never would have imagined negotiating with a teacher when I was in school. I'm not exactly sure where that comes from or if its related to getting incentives at home, but it does cause problems in the classroom sometimes. I'm not sure if I answered your question but I just wanted to mention my observations.
ReplyDeletehttp://subjectivelysimple.blogspot.com/
I occasionally used incentives when I was raising my kids, but not all the time. Self satisfaction should be its own reward, but I find it rarely is nowadays.
ReplyDeleteI think we need a combination. If I went to work every day and never got a pay check I would soon tire of going to work, but then I NEED a paycheck. Does he need a game system? Wants and needs are different. If I had enough money to stay home, I would find a way to volunteer at least a portion of my time to a worthy cause. There is much to say about the rewards of doing a good deed and being appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI love that you all have family debates!
ReplyDeleteAh, this is a matter of debate in many families, isn't it?! I generally did not promise my kids rewards for doing what they should do, like doing their best at school, or doing their chores at home. However, I did sometimes surprise them with a little something for a job well done or just to let them know I noticed and appreciated their efforts. Having said that, I did occasionally "bribe" my autistic son when I knew he was going to have a hard time doing something. I'm not sure that was the right thing to do, but sometimes it was the easiest thing to do. And sometimes the easiest thing was the best I could do.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you.
ReplyDeleteI've never given money for A's on my son's report card. I've also told him that by being kind to people hopefully they will pass the kindness on to someone else. Besides when you are kind, do well in school or beat your own record...you feel good and want to always do your best.
ReplyDeleteMy kids don't usually get extra money for doing things. They live in the house, they belong to the family, things need to get done. Period. But if they have special accomplishments (things that I know they really, really had to work hard at to get and we didn't believe they could), we sometimes surprise them with a trip to McDs or getting everyone an ice cream. They only time they've gotten extra, cold-hard cash, is the rare occasion when we get unexpect visitors and my house needs to be spik and span within a couple hours.
ReplyDeleteIt's good that you can discuss such matters as a family.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
It's works in politics. Lobbyists offer money, free dinners, golf outing's, trips to their favorite lap dance spot and political contributions so they get laws passed for their sponsors.....It seems to be how things work in this country, do we want our children's generation to continue in this tradition or not???? good post
ReplyDeletei was waiting for you to weigh in on this since she posted it. Although your stance is still unclear to me-aside from politics, is it not the same in corporate America? That movie I watched that you sent me (I can't remember the name-Trader I think) he worked around the clock b/c he loved his job, yes, but that begs the question: Would he have worked that hard, and done that good of a job-for free? Ps-I have been studying in mexico for the last couple weeks-Loving it! Your advice about "the lonely American" is true-one of the kids down here refuses to even go to bars or places to eat if there not American-might as well visited his hometown. -Mikey
DeleteGod bless him, but it's totally my ex's fault that our 2 kids don't do anything without whining for compensation. When my ex and his 2 sisters were growing up, they didn't have to do ANYTHING, and they were handed money for whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted. That attitude has been passed down to my 2 kids, no matter what I've done to try to curb it. It's not that my ex is a bad guy, though...we get along great (now) and he's a great dad! But the was he was raised made an impression, and I'm often struggling with the consequences of that impression.
ReplyDeleteThis is good training for your son. How lucky he is to have parents like you to guide him too.
ReplyDeleteI do not have children so I can only pull from personal experience as a child. There were certain chores I would do that I would receive compensation for. As a teenager my parents were not going to be able to talk me into doing these things for free! I was not a bad child but needed that incentive. I was never compensated for exceling in sports. That sounds strange to me that the guy would offering a child an xbox to make up for him trying to do his best!
ReplyDeleteMy two oldest are in their 30's. They did work without any monetary incentives. Sometimes they didn't like it but they were always good hard workers. My two teens that are still home, don't like to work at all. I don't think any amount of money would change that. I think it's just a different generation. Now they both have jobs. That's different to them. They like the money and rarely complain about their jobs. I think that they think, house work should be my job. I wonder how it will be when they move out and mom's not there anymore? I'd love to be a fly on the wall then!!! Good Luck, Love Di ♥
ReplyDeleteHiya =) yes I follow you back. =)
ReplyDeleteI have 4 kids =) and ages from 4 to 9 =) and here in Sweden we have Saturday sweet day (Saturday Candy)... which mean Only saturdays is aloud to have any kinds of sweets, which is alright in order to keep a "hold" on kids treat intake BUT for me I find it that they becoming so fixated with it that they going all week asking for just that day.
So I have done so that if they help out in the house, i.e doing the laundry, cleaning their rooms and such, then maybe something will come their way someday in the week, which to me works a lot better then for those families that have Saturday Candy. =)
Just a tought. =)
I've nominated you for the Versatile Blogger Award!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.momontherunx2.com/2012/07/ive-been-nominated-for-versatile.html
I think its an excellent debate. I use a combination and that is what I grew up with. There are regular expectations like picking up after yourself, clothes to the laundry, clearing the table, shoes in the backroom, helping with the animals. Then there are extras that are chores maybe I wouldn't normally assign for their age but if they want to help they "may" get a reward. Then there are things I just don't feel like doing and I may make the offer that if they will do it I'll pay - like a quarter or dollar depending on the job - or they may earn a special reward like a trip for ice cream or the dollar store or they pick where we eat dinner out next time. So far I have gotten good results. My daughter often offers to do things to help for nothing - depends on the mood. The other day she saw me washing dishes (my least favorite chore) and really wanted to do it herself just because. Other days she doesn't even want to take care of her own plate after dinner. When we don't feel like doing things incentives help but they shouldn't be so frequent that they become "expected". Sports is the same way I think. The "desire" should be there on its own. The incentive just provides a little motivation or challenge to get there. When my 3 year old doesn't want to listen during his skating lesson we tell him he doesn't get to play hockey with his hockey stick until after he listens and does what the instructor asks during his lesson - and then there is always the ice cream bribe, lol. The only time we offer a big incentive is for something like all A's the whole school year might earn a trip to a favorite place.
ReplyDeleteInteresting discussion. I think it comes down to "we should do things because it it right and good" but DO we always? I know I don't. Maybe when I am much holier. I don't pay my children for normal chores and neither do I bribe them with stuff. I have been known to take away for a shoddy job. I suppose that is reverse bribing huh? (I will pay top dollar $5 or so if I have misplaced something of importance and really want my children to be motivated to look.)
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by my blog and I am your newest follower.
You're doing the right thing Annmarie, he should learn how great it is to achieve a goal just for the sake of.
ReplyDeleteCheers,
Char
http://1epicmom.com
I think some of the best things in life are worth more than what we get in money however that said sometimes it is the motivator that is helpful in some situations. The balancing act to distinguish between the two and pass that lesson onto our children is quite the challenge indeed!
ReplyDeleteWe use rewards to train children in good habits, including obedience and sacrifice of immediate personal desires for a greater goal. We hope that when children mature, those habits will translate into discipline, hard work, and ultimately the ability to love, to act in the best interests of the other without need of an extrinsic reward. Thus St. Paul after his well-known explanation of Love, concludes that "When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things." 1 Corinthians 13:11. Sadly, many adults in our society fail to put aside the childish reward system and never learn the adult behaviors of discipline, obedience and self-sacrificing true love for their own sake!
ReplyDeleteWe do not reward for a job well done in our house. If I gave a prize or $ every time a task was done I would be broke. When my daughter complained about chores and how her friends don't have to do it, I pointed out I was teaching her responsibility. Was she going to call me every time she needed her dishes done or floor swept? Of course not. If other parents wanted to do that, fine by me. My daughter was 12 years old and it was embarassing she didn't even know how to use a broom properly. She does now, and is slowly learing other life skills, without pay.
ReplyDeleteSame with grades. I do not pay for good grades. I tell my kids every year "Your grades do not affect me. If you get an A, great! If you choose to slack off, well, I hope you like the phrase Do you want fries with that? because that's where you're going to end up. If you want to have a good life, education is key. If not, that's on you." This approach seems to be working. My daughter is straight A's in all honors classes. Not because she wanted $ for a good report card, but because she wants to make a successful life for herself.
I have eight grandkids who are bribed into good behavior all the time. I wish I didn't feel the need to do so...but with eight kids running in different directions and all talking at once...aaaarrgh. I just hope their parents don't find out about Grandma's money box or I'll be in deep water...shshshsh.
ReplyDeleteI love this post because it has multiple layers of teaching and these are, for me, clear cut. On the surface of it, I understand your son's perspective for a number of reasons, mostly concerning adherence to social contract. I try to teach my children that a moral bargain seeks to respect both participants, that is, is "Win-Win." Any other combination is either immoral or lacks survival value for the species: "I Win-You Lose" is unfair, and "I Lose-You Win" is martyrdom or self-effacement, which if practiced perfectly ends the human race. Your son is attempting to see the "Win-Win" in this situation, and thinks a financial reward is needed to instill balance in your bargain with him. But he misses the greater truth where your guidance is key. What he needs help to see is if he puts himself in your place, your bargain with him has been mainly "Lose-Win." Not only have you and your husband sacrificed your freedom, life and energies to give birth to him, go to work and earn money, put food on the table and make a roof over his head, but you have gone beyond to buy him X-boxes, provide him with his "wants," clean his laundry, make a peaceful and safe home, and take him to extracurricular events so he may achieve fulfillment and prosperity. So while he might like to be paid for cleaning the floor, perhaps you might be conspicuously absent when he needs a ride to wrestling practice, or money for a class trip, simply because you couldn't see the "financial benefit" of your participation or were too busy with chores like cleaning the floors to take him. This is also a nice little reminder that you are not merely a life-support system for his and his siblings' wants and needs.
ReplyDeleteHEy I'm stopping by to let you know that I nominated you for the Versatile Blogger Award to please stop by and "pick up" your award!
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you ANn Marie !
ReplyDeleteI was brought is a household where you did things because you HAD to not for financial benefit.
You did things write because it was YOUR name behind whatever it was you were doing - it was a pride thing.
I don't have kids, however I see that parents around me use a lot of "bribe" in raising their kids,a s with getting 10 dollars for each A they bring in their report card. I am not sure I would do that.
As a teacher I used to get SO discouraged by parents who would pay their children for good grades. What kind of message does this send? That knowledge and skills are not valuable in their own right? I would stick with your current approach and avoid bribes, because that's really what "incentives" are.
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I don't agree at all! It's bribing. I hope my son will do effort for himself and not by interest.
ReplyDeleteThis is a really important question - because if everything in life is only done well because of money where would we be?
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand we all know that people do things because they want to achieve something - recognition, reward, status ... whatever.
I think it is important to do our best without a prize or reward. I must also add- that a prize is also a nice bonus. :) ~Jess
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this post! The way you told it makes me smile, however your excellent question is very important in 2012. Today children feel the need to be compensated for all their efforts. The downside is they miss out on just helping when assistance is needed. Or the great feelings that go with giving of yourself and receiving satisfaction of leaving people/place better than you found it. Outreach programs help people learn compensation can come in the form of a smile that means thank you. I think its wonderful that you do have these conversations with your family. Also that you listen to your children. What you're doing is missing in so many homes. I hope more parents take more time on this.
ReplyDeleteThanks for visiting and linking to the GTKY blog hop. :)
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Wow...i wont dare to enter into a debate with him.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by my blog! This is a tough one but I tend to agree with you, they should do their best because they want to.
ReplyDeleteLOL! I am NOT one to talk.. I bribed my son to poop in the potty with little wrapped army guys and gum.
ReplyDeleteGood luck!
Incentives are often effective. The trick is to learn to offer them to yourself.
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Prizes always inpires everybody. One study hard to get an honor and better paying job later, one gives because there is a reward in giving like the good feeling that you can ease someone's burden or that you know that you are doing good things as if you do it for God. Our rewards will be in heaven. In the activity center where I work for the elderly, I do different games with them with prizes. and it makes them excited. It makes their days not dull. something to look forward for. So I believe your son can be rewarded not all times, but sometimes? Anyway, thanks for the visits in my blogsite. Really appreciate it:) I am now your follower too.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I think there's way too much emphasis placed on monetary value in our society, I still think a little incentive goes a very long way for a child. Perhaps it doesn't have to be an emphasis on money, necessarily, but more of an emphasis on whatever pleases each child the most. God bless.
ReplyDeleteThe argument is good, but I have seven children and would have gone broke!! Like you, I want their best and not their best for financial rewards that don't last. Then they would always want something instead of wanting to serve others. The motivation would be wrong.
ReplyDeleteOh, being a first time mom of a 2yr old (i.e. very "young" mom still), this is really difficult for me. This is something that I myself am still contemplating. I've been trying to teach my child to pick up her toys after playing but it's still a big battle for now. Sorry I can't give my 2-cents but I have been enjoying reading the other comments! :)
ReplyDeleteSpanish Pinay
Man this is so provocative! After much thought I came to the conclusion that the desire for excellence comes from reward. Kids need reward because that's all they have. With maturity and adulthood, the reward is pride, that more than not turns into a monetary gain in the job world. My dad always said, do it because you want to do good and right...but with 5 kids...we still got rewarded...he had 5 high achievers. So maybe it works because it changes.
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